Big Interview: "Besigye's time is up," says Prof Baryamureeba

A couple of days ago, the leadership of People’s Front for Transition (PFT) led by Dr. Kizza Besigye wrote to the National Unity Platform (NUP) and Alliance for National Transformation (ANT) seeking for a coalition in a bid to remove president Museveni from power.

Speaking to the Nile Post in an interview, former presidential aspirant Prof Venansius Baryamureeba said if the opposition is genuine about the change of government, Besigye should rally behind the new kid on the block, NUP leader Robert Kyagulanyi aka Bobi Wine.

Excerpts below:

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The National Resistance Movement (NRM) celebrated 36 years in power. Has the party fulfilled its promises to the people of Uganda?

There is no government that can succeed without failures because failing is part of succeeding. You learn from your mistakes and build from that and become a better government but one of the greatest achievements is that NRM has been in power for 36 year.

Some people may think NRM has over stayed in power but for me that is an achievement, meaning that they are able to keep power for that long. It means they have the mandate of the people. It means they have consistently provided stability. The economy has grown and investors are assured that they can invest in Uganda and four years down the road they are sure that their investments will be safe.

In these 36 years, opposition claim there has been shrinking civic space in the country and increasing abuse of human rights. What do you think?

Shrinking civil space is not the only indicator for democracy. Of course, it is an unfortunate incident but you cannot look at one thing and say there is no democracy. You look at various issues, for example are people able to elect their MPs to represent them in Parliament? Indeed they are.There are just a few incidences where you find there is rigging. In some areas and positions you find NRM competing against itself. I am not saying that everything is okay. You have to look at politics in Africa, even in America there are issues. For democracy to grow, it takes time.

What is your take on President Museveni proposal to scrap bail for capital offences?

It is not a good proposal; it is like those things that we used to do in the past, you remember that time of Obote and so on .Removing bail is not a good thing .If you look at the time when president went to the bush, if there was no bail, some of people who were innocently arrested [as collaborators] would not have been released on bail. They were actually able to escape and leave the country and that is how they survived. So at times, you have to leave that window. Not everybody who is arrested is a criminal.

Having spent 36 years in power, don’t you think it’s long overdue for President Museveni to step down so that someone else takes over the mantle of leadership?

What are the reasons for him stepping down? Are you aware that the queen of England is still in power and she is older [than president Museveni]? Leave alone that, look at the Catholic Church, the Pope stays in office until death and the head of Catholic Church. It is only the Archbishop who retires at 75 years.

For me, it would not be an issue if Museveni can have good ministers, the people who can do technical work. The president can remain and ensure that he works through the cabinet and the work runs properly. Even if you go to America, how old is Joe Biden [US president]? He is older Museveni. It is not about age, people can say Museveni has [overstayed in power] but you have to look at his health.

Recently, there have been rumours that the regime is quietly mooting the idea to have Parliament elect the president. Is Uganda ready for this incase the idea is brought on board?

That proposal of a Parliamentary system is a very dangerous system for a country like Uganda. When you give powers to Parliament, the bargaining power goes up .Let’s say in 2026 we have a parliamentary system and they are the one supposed to determine the president. Do you know that each one of them {MPs} can get Shs 500 million Shillings? Just for that? They can increase their bargaining power and yet you are not sure whether they are going to give you {votes} because they are very few.

What, in your view, is the future of the opposition in Uganda?

If it was possible, they would take out all the known leaders in the opposition and come out with somebody who is appealing and they all rally behind that person .Bobi Wine had come as a musician, he was somehow appealing to the youth but they{opposition} missed out that point to rally behind him.

If Besigye had rallied behind Bobi Wine, he would have got 44 % [in 2021elections]. That was missed out and it cannot happen. People miss this issue of timing.

There are people who think 'if I am not the one, no one else should be.' I have seen people like Dr. Kizza Besigye go and come back. This young man Bobi Wine has been supporting Besigye until when he{Besigye} didn’t support him in Kyadondo East by-election. If Besigye was serious with this thing he calls change ,why did he not come out and support Bobi Wine?

What happened to your political party?

It was actually supposed to be the number one political party in Uganda. I got a certificate on February 7 2004.NRM being a mass party when they learnt that I was going to register, they [rushed] and registered. Mine was National Progressive Movement. I wanted to reform the resistance, so they were worried that if I got that certificate maybe I could go to court. I said this name is similar but they gave it to both of us. I built the party but in 2005 I said I needed to focus differently and I said a party is not a personal thing. That is when I talked to Bidandi Ssali to take up the party [which later morphed into People's Progressive Party-PPP].

As a supporter of NRM and given your competencies, are you not disappointed that you have never been appointed a minister?

I don’t know how you people measure. Being a minister is not a big deal. We teach people how to be entrepreneurs. You see a person like me in 2007 I was a top ICT academic in Africa. My work is spread across the globe. What I want to tell you is that the money I earn from consultancy is like five times what an MP gets or what the minister gets here in Uganda.

I have competence and I can actually serve in any capacity and deliver in any position in government but to me it is not a big deal. I have worked for President Museveni for a long time, so when he offers me a job, I can’t say no.

What happened to Uganda Technology and Management University (UTAMU)? I heard that you were dismissed from the institution.

When you talked about UTAMU, nobody chased me away. When I started the UTAMU, I had the ideology of the institution to be the mightiest of Africa. I got academicians from Makerere who didn’t have much experience in the private sector that joined me to run the university.

I could have had 80% of shares or even 90% because I am the one who decided to start UTAMU.So I asked them to join me and they worked under my leadership.In 2015 when I went for elections, some of them wanted to hijack the institution but I realised they were immature.

I realised that these guys didn't know what they were doing in the university. They wanted quick money. For me I was not looking for money, I was trying to build the institution that can outlive us. What I did when I came back I had to take control because I had given them shares and bought them off. So right now I have full control, so any decision that I want to take can be taken but in good faith. It is now progressing very fast.

What is your political ambition?

For me, I am somebody who can do anything. I have capacity to do anything but it is not about me. I have made my contribution. In the Ugandan record I am there. You know I ran a very successful campaign. I am one person who funded my campaign everywhere in this country .