Big interview: "We are headed for political anarchy," says Lukwago

In 2020, the opposition political parties signed a declaration of principles committing to form a unified force to ensure that President Museveni is dislodged from power.

But that stopped on paper.

Many political actors think that unity is one way to drive the regime out of power.

In an interview with The Nile Post, Kampala Lord Mayor Erias Lukwago said political terror will compel the opposition parties to come together and form that common front whether they want or not.

Excerpts below.

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Why were you against the eviction of street vendors from the city?

It all stems from the vision and mission of the institution. What is the agenda of Kampala Capital City Authority (KCCA)? Our mission and vision is to transform Kampala into a modern functional, active, vibrant, resilient visible and inclusive city.

 The inclusiveness of the urban poor, does this mean that you are for a disorganised city?

There are plans that are made for urban poor to also survive in the city, you don’t just use force. Even in the developed world they don’t just use force. The best we can do is to offer them alternatives and I want you to mark my words, I am not for a disorganised city but I am against the eviction of the people, so we need to strike a balance.

What is that balance?

The formula is twofold; the most sustainable is to build markets, unfortunately the government has not been forthcoming in availing us funds to construct markets ,they have been so slow.

So what you do and this is what we proposed is that we gazette a particular streets for them{vendors}where they can carry out their trade.

We do evening markets for example, we do flea markets, we do that gazetting like I said ,those areas downtown, we can allow street vending and even upscale Kampala, there are certain types of business that can still go on .

You cannot chase vendors who are selling newspapers for examples from Kampala road, you cannot.

Some leaders have accused you of being rigid.They claim you have never welcomed good ideas aimed at transforming the city more especially if the idea is coming from the ruling government.

Whosever is accusing me, they don’t understand the word development and I invite them to at least broaden their thinking with all due respect. Just go back and study the philosophy and theories of development.

When it comes to street vending, force should come at the tail end to deal with most stubborn ones who have refused all the alternatives you would have provided where you have markets, where you have gazette streets.

It is only in extreme cases where you can apply force. Development presupposes holistic sense. You cannot develop the city for a selected few, no that is where I disagree with those who have that school of thought.

Theirs is about growth not development that is a different thing. Sustainable development presupposes planning for each and everybody.

Several taxi operators were left stranded after some local investors cordoned off Old Taxi Park. What is happening?

What is happening is a self-styled tycoon seeking to grab the taxi park .Those mafias who have no shame, you would say they are well off but they are poor psychologically.

In their hearts, they are poor .We are saying that the taxi park was sold off illegally. We have a lease of 99 hectares which was granted to us by the district landlord way back in 2000 and the purpose was to create a taxi park.

So, these people fraudulently in 2005 opted to acquire leases to construct commercial malls there contrary to fundamental clauses within the lease agreement between KCCA and Kampala district land board.

In that they got some leases to construct commercial malls on a property which is a subject of lease for construction of a taxi park. They never followed the bidding process, so they did all the transactions under the table {illegally}.

Those transactions are rooted in fraud, they are rooted illegally and they are not enforceable. Yesterday {on Wednesday} when we convened the council, I presented the statement.

What is your take on the torture of suspects under detention by security agencies? What should be done in your view to address such issues which have tainted the country’s image abroad?

When you have a military regime in power which has no mandate of the people, all that is expected because now they have to exert force in the people whose will they subdue. This regime is not enjoying the good will of the people that is why now there is that clash between the people and regime because the regime is not there on the will of the people.

The regime was not put in place by the people. Actually the regime treats the people as its enemies .The people perceive the regime as a brutal force that has imposed its authority on them.

That is what explains the pandagari situation we have right now because we are back in those days of pandagari, the drones, the disappearances, the torture.

The fact that we have a robust legal frame to deal with torture in practice what is happening is different. The rights against torture, cruel treatment, brutality under Article 44 is absolute. The rights of Ugandans have been abused because of one thing: impunity. They are protecting one man in power.

Should Ugandans get worried about the shrinking political space in the country?

The ever shrinking political space in the country should be a worry to any right thinking Ugandans, it portents of hard days to come. We are headed to anarchy that is our worry.

The moment we degenerate to those levels where there is no constitutional order, where there is no rule of law, where there is no respect of human dignity, where power is enjoyed by a handful of individuals, where the state is detached from the citizenry, and then we are headed for doom.

What should be done for the country to overcome all these challenges you have talked about, in your view what is the best way out?

Everything starts with civic awareness and that is basically what we have been embarking on .We need civic action but it starts with civic awareness . It is very important for the people to understand how deep the crisis is, there are those who have not appreciated it. I see many people on social media who think we are in a multi-party system and they have been attacking one another and we begin clashing along those lines forgetting that indeed we don’t actually have a multiparty democracy.

All we have is a dictatorship. We are trying to do our best to bring together all forces of change to rally them behind that particular cause so that we minimise the partisan friction we have right now.

You have talked about bringing together all change seeking forces but some political parties have on several times shown no interest in coming together. How will this happen?

It is a question of time whether we like it or not the political terror will compel us to come together and form that common front. It is just a question of time and we are doing our best to do that .Lets not focus on the structured opposition along party lines.

What we call opposition now is the civilian authority against the military junta. The opposition today we have is constituted of that civilian authority and it goes beyond party line and that is what we are focusing on. Whether you like it or not history will tell you, there is no dictator who has succeeded in subduing the will of the people, it has not happened, it is just a question of time.

Don’t you think that Ugandans are becoming tired of empty promises made by the opposition? When will this change happen?

You should not hold it against us because the command to put this country back on the right path is under the Constitution, it is a constitutional command under Article 3. So the promise you are talking about is a misconception, let’s talk about the command in the constitution .

Whether Lukwago or any other person makes a promise and it doesn’t happen, does it take away the reality that the constitution has been subdued? Does it take away the reality that actually we don’t have democracy in this country? Does it take away the reality that people are being impoverished? People are being abused .

Do you think Dr. Kizza Besigye was the right person to lead People’s Front for Transition? 

If he is not the right one, suggest the best. Is Besigye a liability or an asset to the struggle? Any person can lead. For us we don’t mind, so if you don’t want Besigye to lead, let’s sit together and get any other person to lead us. Whether we consulted other [political parties] or not I don’t want to get into that .

We need to move forward. People Front for Transition is not a pressure group; no, it is a front. A front is a platform for different political entities pressure groups inclusive and also political party’s .So PFT is not a pressure group, it is a political front.

There were reports that the regime is planning to amend the constitution to have the president elected by Parliament. What is your take?

The people who are pursuing have unscrupulous intentions of entrenching a family rule because they want either Mr. Museveni to stay in power now that he is aged without going through the troubles of the elections, or to make it easy for his son because they know for sure if Museveni anoints him as his successor he will be rejected and rigging will not help him.

That is why they want to come up with a system that would make it easy for the family to remain in power for eternity.