Retired General Kale Kayihura, former Inspector General of Police (IGP), has dismissed media reports that he is sore and sour after being sidelined from public events, saying he was not only misrepresented but is a content man focused on farming.
In an exclusive interview with NBS Television and Nile Post's Thomas Kitimbo, Gen Kayihura spoke of dedicating his time to farming after stepping away from active public service.
Residing in Kashagama in Lyantonde District, Kayihura said he remains active in national affairs.
“I’m still in the media. I attended Tarehe Sita on February 6, and I’ve been at other events. Yes, farming keeps me busy, but I’m not isolated,” he said.
Kayihura’s public service continues in ways he finds fulfilling, such as producing food and beverages, including what he proudly describes as “the best yogurt in Uganda.”
Excerpts;
Media reports suggested that you were complaining about being isolated and not invited to state functions
Those reports are completely false. I'm still in the media. Actually, the last function I attended was Tarehe Sita on February 6, which is where the army invited me. And I saw, at least on social media, I saw pictures that had been taken of that event.
I was in the movement for the Liberation Day, January 26. I attended many social functions. In fact, the problem is time. Otherwise, I'm always invited to this or that social function. Even this week, I was invited by the community of Bafumbira to join them in some functions. So, I've been in the public domain, actually.
Yes, it diverts me from doing what I am doing - farming. Because if you keep on running around, you will not concentrate on what you should. But otherwise, I'm not isolated at all.
And I'm actually extremely busy... in a different way. I was busy, of course, in the police, in the army. But I'm busy in a different way, socially and so on.
If you are redeployed, would you serve again in any position?
I don't know why you would ask me such a question because I'm retired. I served. I retired, you remember, on August 31, 2023, in a colourful ceremony at the State House. I retired from the army. For the Police, it was in March 2018.
That's when I left office and actually went back to concentrate on farming, which I've been doing. Obviously, some of us, once we took the decision to join the struggle, it was out of conviction. So if ever the struggle needs me, the leadership thinks I can be of use, I'm here.
As long as I have energy in my body, I'm ready to serve, because it's a lifetime commitment. So you never cut off. And in fact, what I'm doing, even this farming, in my mind, I tell myself, it's actually public service.
Because if I can grow food, like grow food or make beverage like I'm doing, I'm not advertising (read bragging), but I think I have the best yoghurt in Uganda. Some people don't know. But those who have taken it, we do it with passion, not for money, really.
So you feel, in a sense, if I can supply you guys in the town with matooke, with yoghurt, it's public service, not so? So it's not like I am no longer of any use to the country, even as I focus more in supporting my family, supporting my immediate community.
But I'm still, my mindset is still, serving the country. If the struggle needs me, if the movement needs me, I'm there.
But there were reports about you feeling isolated...
That's nonsense. But I don't know. I also, somebody told me about it. That's utter nonsense. I think this came from the remarks I made during the [requiem] mass as we were mourning the passing of my colleague and friend, the late John Cossy Odomel, at St Charles Lwanga Church in Ntinda.
I believe it is the remarks I made that were distorted, they were presented out of context. And I don't know for what reason, because I was very clear. But obviously, it's nonsense, because as I told you, I've been attending functions, public functions.
It was a tribute to Comrade Odomel. And I was giving the historical context, how I met him at the university, we were students together from 1976 to 79. Although he was doing sciences, I was doing law, he was in a different hall, Livingston Hall, I was in Northcote, but they were closed.
I remember we shared friends. Those of us like Jim [Muhwezi], General [Mugisha] Muntu, they were all in Livingston Hall, and they were my friends, and I think they were also his friends. So, and we used to have discussions, especially about what was going on, the difficulties of the times, Idi Amin era, and all of us were bitter, and we all hoped that we would play a role in fighting the regime.
So, I started there. Then I talked about, after the removal of the regime in 79, and then we almost together, being recruited for police cadet training because the government at that time was recruiting, they wanted to improve the calibre of leadership in the police. So, our friend Jim had contacts in the government, and I believe they asked him to look for, especially law graduates, and others.
So, Odomel was among those who were selected. I also had registered, and of course, as I said, I have always been surprised why my name was left out. I kind of jokingly, spicing up that narrative, said God works in mysterious ways.
After many years, I was one of the IGPs who succeeded Odomel. After being appointed in November 2005, I became the third, since Odomel, to serve as Inspector General of Police. I took over from General Katumba Wamala, who took over from John Kisembo. Then, I even mentioned, that whoever planned against me joining the police in 1979, must be really having a hard time, because, because now I'm the longest serving IGP in Uganda.
So, and then I jokingly, because IGP was there, IGP Abas Byakagaba, so I said, but how do you ignore me, when I'm the longest serving IGP? I never mentioned about being isolated or complaining about not being invited at functions. I'm always following what's going on in the police through the media. And for me, that's enough. Why should I complain? I have enough things to do.
Any chance of joining active politics and how were you able to handle the tense moments back then?
Well, you know comrade, as I have told you, I have really not been quite active in the public domain and I have no doubt that the current leaderships, the operational command that is in charge of the security of the country are quite competent and they have demonstrated it. And I worked with a number of them even during that time when I was still IGP. Talk about the Chief of Defence Forces (CDF), General MK, as we fondly call him.
We always worked very, very closely. The other security agencies, the young command now in charge of the police, these are officers who I'm very confident about with managing the situation. Talk about the IGP, talk about the direct operations.
So, I wouldn't want to speculate or to be hypothetical because they are obviously dealing with a situation, a different situation. I don't know the challenges they're having. I'm certain that they cannot be completely the kind of challenges I faced.
They may be similar and they are different leaders. They have their different approaches. And so, I don't want to pontificate about it.
What I feel good about is that by the time I left, we had already neutralised a lot of these forces or tendencies that dared to undermine the political situation. They had become weakened. It was difficult, but I think we did a lot.
So, my only hope is that we, whatever we contributed in terms of the methods we used to approach, to contain those situations, would be made useful. Especially, as I said during the Requiem Mass, community policing. The only thing I could, and I'm surprised it was not even given much prominence. Odomel is the one I'm told who introduced the community policing.
Community policing was different from the traditional policing which we inherited from the colonialists, which was more reactive, to halt protest, resistance against the colonial masters, and the colonial regime at the time. So, it was an instrument.
It was actually a paramilitary, an instrument of suppression. Now, modern police it should be, as we say, protect and support. Protect the people, be close to the people, involve them in fighting crime, in this case with the police, and mainly be responsive and be sensitive. That's why I was re-orienting the police.
It was started with Odomel, I'm sure developed by John Kisembo, who came after him, and then General Katumba, and I said it in my tribute, General Katumba advising me when I was handing over, he said, Kale, this community policy, you should use it as a force multiplier because the police has incapacities, inadequacies, but once you involve the people in policing, it will compensate for these inadequacies.
And that's exactly what I did. And to be honest, I'm so convinced that that's the way we should go.
And the good thing, it was in line with also my experience in the NRA, UPDF. Remember the weapon, the main weapon that we used in fighting, fighting the Obote regime was the people. Like Mao Zedong says, a guerrilla is like fish in water, it swims in the population.
That's how it can survive. If the water is not there, the fish will not survive. So the same thing, if the people's support is not there, a guerrilla cannot survive.
That's why we celebrate June 9, when we are celebrating those heroes, the old men, the Lutamaguzi and others who protected the young group of guerrillas led by our President and hid them from the thugs, which was hunting for them. Had they not, I don't know, the history of Uganda could have been different. So, we must value the people and base that found our systems, including policing.
Some people used to wonder why I was always at a number of scenes of crime. It was actually to mobilise the people around the scene of crime to help us get to know who could have been responsible to get the suspect apart from making personal assessment. And a lot of times we succeeded.
Although, of course, now there is also technology which comes in, but it should be built on the support of the people and the involvement, weaponizing the people for support. So even when we are preparing for these elections, I think that's something that the new leadership and the police especially would, I'm sure, they are aware of. And if they were to ask me, that's the advice I would give them.
What do you miss most in Police?
What I miss most is the daily routine engagement with the people. People calling me, people asking me to solve their problems, from small problems to big problems. I miss that very much. And I always feel good whenever I go to these public places, when somebody approaches, oh, some of them still think I'm IGP.
So they approach me, they say, oh, IGP, I have this problem. I say, but I'm not in the police. And then I'm forced to call somebody in the police to say there is somebody who has a problem here.
Recently, somebody was arrested in Katwe for, I think had failed to pay a debt. So he was afraid of going to civil prison in Luzira. So he calls me, he says, IGP... I don't know who gave him my number. He says, help me, I'm in Katwe, talk to these...
I said, but I have no authority over them. The good thing is that there was an officer who realised he was talking to me, because the other man was telling him, have the phone, the IGP. So he realised the confusion of this gentleman.
He could hear my voice. So he said, oh, sir, it is you. So I told him, yeah, "please don't get confused by that confused man. I'm not the one who has set him. If you can help him, help him, but please disabuse him of this notion that I'm the IGP". So to me, that connection with the people is what I miss.
And in that sense, because every day, I don't know I would get a million calls, but these days, of course, because I don't have that responsibility. That is something I sometimes I feel nostalgic about.
You were once charged in the military court, did you feel betrayed by the very system you helped create considering that the Constitution says military court has no powers to try civilians?
No, no, no. My case is different from what is going on, because me, I was still serving military officer. So there was no issue. I was properly before the military court, and I was subjected to it. My case was properly handled.
I was investigated, and they found that all these were just lies, pure lies. And as a consequence, on 30th of August, 2023, if you remember, I was discharged. The court just dismissed whatever they had concocted.
So I believe in the military justice system. And the president is right. It has helped, even when I was still in service. I think also the civil court should acknowledge, and even the people themselves complain.
You find cases take too long. In my neighbourhood, there is a family. They have had a land dispute for 33 years, and still unresolved. They have paid money here and there.
They have gone, I don't know, from the lowest now I think to, the Supreme Court. And many more. I don't know why they don't highlight it. Why is the judicial policy changing from, relying on a litigation to deliver justice to now pushing for out-of-court settlement, mediation, because of the inadequacies of the litigation system, of the civil courts.
So we must accept that there is a weakness in terms of delivery of justice. And of course, the leadership, rightly, gets frustrated as well in fighting crime and bringing security to. I remember even when I was IGP, there used to be a lot of complaints in these community meetings we used to have, that they take a case to the police and before they reach home, the suspect who they took to the police or even to court has reached home before them. In other words, complaining that the criminal justice system of the country is not responding to the justice demands of the people.
So while I appreciate that there needs to be rationalisation, the court-martial is faster than the civil courts. I'm not saying there are no inadequacies, and that's why I think the government is also responding to the number of issues that the Supreme Court raised.
Talk about the justice system in relation to the military court
If the criminal justice system that is offered by the civil courts has issues, and the court-martial can help, especially where arms are involved, where use of firearms is involved, I don't think you should not consider it, or you should condemn it as it's out of place. Every country has its own challenges which make it opt out of the normal civil court system.
Look at America. We get inspiration from these countries, the Western democracies. Look at America. Why is it that when it came to trying terrorists, they have Guantanamo Bay, they put them in Guantanamo. They subject them to a completely special criminal justice system of outside the mainstream justice system of the country. Look at Britain.
Britain, in criminal law, generally, it has been agreed that one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Now, in Britain, when it came to fighting terrorism, because they saw that if they use that one, they will not effectively fight terrorism. Because what comes out of that is automatic entitlement to bail.
But in the case of Britain, they came up with a law. That where terrorists, terror suspects are involved, for 90 days, they should not be free to enjoy such a benefit as bail. This is Britain.
So, what I'm saying is, different countries face different challenges of delivering justice, or fighting insecurity. So, they come up with innovations. This one of the courts-martial is an innovation.
And I'm sure if you look at the records, you may find that the court-martial has done justice, more than perhaps if they had taken some of those cases to the civil criminal courts.
To the media, there is what Socrates said, if you want to know the truth, have the authentic desire to find out the truth. Now, the media, I don't think they want to find out. Whenever they are reporting, they seem to have something in mind, some agenda, rather than portraying the truth. Because if these brothers who reported my remarks, if their interest was to report the truth.
Why distort? So that's my number one request. The media, please, report the truth. Number two, to reassure all my wishers, that there's no problem with me, and my friends in the police, I'm not complaining.
I'm very happy in my retirement. And whatever I said there was to tease you. I was just teasing you, rather than that there was any complaint on my part.