Big Interview: "I am not Museveni's mole. Period," says DP's Mao

Some opposition leaders have been in the recent past been accused of being moles for the  ruling National Resistance Movement (NRM).

One of these is Norbert Mao, the president general of the Democratic Party (DP).

Speaking to The Nile Post in an interview, Mao questioned why those who are not moles haven’t removed President Museveni from power claiming that some opposition members who say they don't believe in Parliament, elections and courts are hypocrites.

Excerpts below.

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President Museveni said he won’t accept lectures from foreign countries about democracy. In your view where does his comments leave the country?

I think the president is also a great meddler in other people’s affairs. In fact foreign policy is about meddling because in foreign policy you are trying to influence the decisions of other countries, so he has done the same. He is meddling in South Sudan, he was a key supporter of the forces that overthrew Mobutu {Sese Seko}, he has meddled in Rwanda. I think he didn’t say what he needed to say because his main problem is that certain elements outside Uganda are trying to link up with opposition groups in Uganda with the aim of overthrowing his government through an uprising. He needed to be explicit but in that case he needed to lay the evidence.

How best can the opposition confront the issue of removing President Museveni from power?

The opposition should listen to DP and listen to me, that is the only way we can have change. As long as the opposition party does not listen to Norbert Mao and DP, there will be no change because we are the one who have been telling them the right thing but many of the opposition leaders have the super ego. Apart from listening to us they should trim their egos. For us as DP we don’t have ego, that is why we are able to embrace anybody who proclaims an agenda for change.

How can the opposition listen to you yet you are being accused of working with the regime?

Who has not been accused of working with Museveni? Actually, that is the real problem. We have never accused anyone of working with the regime. When pastors are quarrelling, they accuse each other of practicing witchcraft, in the same way some of the opposition leaders think that if you don’t agree with them, or you don’t support their cause, then you must be NRM. But a person like me is not moved by that. The reason they accused us is because we are willing to engage with the NRM and President Museveni through the formal forum like the Inter Party Organisation for Dialogue, IPOD. We believe that it is important that in designing a post Museveni Uganda, all people deserve to have a say. Those who are not moles; why haven’t they removed the regime? Do they think we will complain, if they remove the regime.

Some political parties claim the reasons why IPOD was formed have been ignored. That it is now sort of a club that meets to have tea and chat

IPOD is not a forum for changing the regime, many of them [opposition] think they will change government through IPOD. IPOD is for discussing politics, it’s for ensuring that we have a forum where we can quarrel and express our disagreement. Many of the expectations of the IPOD are actually misguided. That is the same thing they say about every institution. They say courts are meaningless, they say Parliament is meaningless but they are dying to go to Parliament. Why are they going to Parliament? You can see how they are dancing. They say courts are useless but when courts give them good judgement, then they say courts are working. They even say elections are useless. The opposition should stop this hypocrisy. For us as DP we are not hypocrites.

People claim you joined 2021 presidential race to frustrate Bobi Wine’s victory more especially in Acholi sub region.

Now with those few votes did I succeed? First of all, they were saying I am irrelevant. How can a person who is irrelevant frustrate Bobi Wine? I think, that is the most stupid conclusion anyone can drop. First of all, they say you are a mole, then they say you are useless. They say you have no impact, then they say come and we work together. You unite with people who have values, so that is the most dishonest comment ever. DP is a political party and I am the president of DP and DP has its reasons. There is no political party called opposition. Each party presents its case. If we can agree that is good, if we can’t agree then everybody goes it alone. I hope eventually, they will start listening to DP because we are the champion of opposition unity.

What did you gain from standing as the presidential candidate in the last election?

When you contest you recruit new members and we have recruited very many new members across the country. Secondly, the other parties were not saying the things we were saying. I think you recall our unique message. Did you hear other party saying the things we were saying? Ours was a crusade and through that crusade, we presented our alternative views, people believed deeply by the way. DP was started before Museveni [came to power] and we can’t reduce our party just to one man. Museveni is just a symptom of dictators in Uganda and even those in the opposition have the capacity to become worst dictators, we can’t be fooled.

You have talked of good things about DP. What caused the defection of a good number your MPs to other parties?

Their objective was just to go back to Parliament and they thought that maybe DP would not help them. It is healthy. People change parties, that doesn’t mean that DP is bad. We disagreed over the methodology of achieving our objectives. They were sugarcoated that they were in the struggle. What struggle? For many of them they have been delivered, they are assured of good income for 5 years and we wish them well but let them serve Ugandans and debate in an enlightened manner.

You had promised to resign if the party failed to raise more than 15 MPs in 2021 elections. When are you handing in your resignation? 

Even before we went into the elections, I had already abandoned that position. I was advised by those who care about DP. Secondly, the elections were not free and fair, those who know understand that DP could not just raise only 9 members of Parliament if elections were free and fair, many of our MPs were rigged out throughout Uganda.

What is your political end game?

I said it the other day that If by the time I am 60 years old and I am not president of Uganda, I will give it another 10 years.

What advice can you give to the next leader of opposition?

When you are a leader, you need to have humility especially when you are dealing with an opponent who doesn’t play by your rule book like NRM.They should consult widely, they should know what they don’t know and not assume that they know everything but more importantly they should serve Ugandans irrespective of parties, region, ethnicity. They should serve the whole country. They should make Ugandans proud of parliament.